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User talk:Excluded/physway debate
You seem to be under the false assumption that any kind of pve is enjoyable.--TahiriVeila 04:09, June 15, 2010 (UTC) :If you don't find PvE enjoyable, then why are you playing? Is it an endurance test? Minion 12:24, June 15, 2010 (UTC) I don't really want to get into the debate per se ( i play war 95% of the time ) but the whole concept of abusing overpowered skills is exactly what brought us into the mess that permas made in the first place. By extention, basing yourself and builds around the overpoweredness of certain skills puts you at risk of getting nerfed without warning, where a more balanced approach will weather ther nerfwaves much better.--Lullysing 17:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :Ether Renewal won't get nerfed. Elementalists are too bad to have their one good elite removed. Prot Bond could be nerfed, or any of the monk skills, but it all depends on Ether Renewal. If PB goes, you just need to be better with Prot Spirit and an active protter. Simple skills.Minion 18:06, September 28, 2010 (UTC) They still have a monk, which already begs the question why the tank is necessary. casters did fuck all damage in Hard Mode Boring after a while. Waiting for things to get balled is always a constant niggle. ' '''Damage is small, but that's fine because there are 6 of you. ' '''Allies cannot be spiked while under Prot Bond. Maybe you should turn your internet off before you start smoking, then you wouldn't look like such a retard. [[User:Paranon15|'Paranon']] 18:27, September 28, 2010 (UTC) ::I think you're missing the point. Internet on + smoking = retard. Makes sense. You might want to explain what you believe to be wrong with my biased analysis of tank and spank, or this isn't an argument, but a "waa he's wrong trust me kk" scenario.Minion 23:11, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :::If you need more damage with manlyspike you bring another 100b...--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 06:15, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::The problem has more to do with my playing style. I get bored quickly, and tend to rush into mobs; whether I'm backline or mid. Balling only works when, as Life said a while ago, foes ball themselves. Started dropping SY for DC and diving into those premade mobs. But without a bond, those sins would get ganked soquick. I also don't like to limit people in "random zq PUG teams" to so specific builds. "ERway" or Physway is robust enough to take anything as long as it deals more DPS than a fire elementalist.Minion 06:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::The fact is, you are in a tiny minority, the meta for elite areas is speed clears, most people find them enjoyable, they are quick and provide a challenge for those that look for it. There are people who run more balanced setups, but they are a minority, physway isn't the meta for any elite area, so arguing that physway is better with random points like fagmins don't like it makes you look like a waste of functioning organs. Explaining why you play physway doesn't help to explain why you post arguments that are fundamentally stupid or wrong. [[User:Paranon15|'Paranon']] 17:34, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I get bored and rush into mobs with h/h, it's really not that fun. You're just doing it with pugs. I don't get the appeal for physway except as a social event for more casual guilds. It's more exciting if you run an organized team at a competitive level. If you get enough satisfaction out of c-spacing through an area in pug groups, which doesn't require much skill except common sense, it works for you. For me, it's the same as playing by yourself. Also using wota doesn't increase you critical hit rate much so it's just the fact you're spamming db constantly, sins were oped when they had access to crit agility and the jagged/fox update just added the cherry on top (Not to mention essence). Most if not all your points on TnS and physway are wrong btw :D--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 21:12, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::It was never meant to be specifically for UW, it was meant as a sort of general playing-style which deviated from the regular two monk backline, 1-2 phys and caster clustering. It was to be used as a robust way of playing with humans while giving most players minimal room for failure. And explain why my points are wrong. Minion 02:13, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Our guild once tried UW Physway, it took us about 1h30 and by the end i was so bored i had to go splash cold water on my face to wake myself up before we went to do something else. and as to why most of your points are wrong, if you would like a list i would be glad to oblige. :::*'They still have a monk, which already begs the question why the tank is necessary.' This is one of the stupidest things i've heard for a while. You seem to be under the impression that bonds make even casters totally invincible. Since you are using FoW as your example (it is the only area that uses manly spike in the form you describe, so i assume you are.), have you ever tried bonding up a caster and getting them to do the first pull in fow? they will die. All the bonds will be stripped by shadow mesmers and if you take SB on the monk then you lose the ressing power of UA. A shadow form tank can do the whole pull using 2 or 3 skills, with no bonds. :::*'casters did fuck all damage in Hard Mode.' FoW is still possible using a caster spike, however it is more difficult to time than manly spike, so pugs prefer manly. Can i also draw your attention to the fact that out of the 4 elite areas that use spike teams, the meta for 2 of them use caster spikes (Urgoz, DoA), another of your false assumptions is that manly spike is the only spike used in SCs. :::*'Boring after a while. Waiting for things to get balled is always a constant niggle.', i could argue why this is not the case but instead i am simply going to remind you that c-spacing through an area with physicals is far far more boring than waiting 30 seconds for a tank to ball a mob. :::*'Damage is small, but that's fine because there are 6 of you.', manly spike deals an absolutely huge amount of damage - assuming that there are 15 enemies in a mob, which i would say is average for FoW, mark of pain triggers once for each of those enemies, dealing 15*50 (750) damage to all adjacent targets, added to that the 15*20 (300) from hundred blades and some extra damage from splinter, it is well in excess of 1000 damage to each foe in the ball, PER WARRIOR, in the space of about .2sec, if that is small damage to you, then your WoTA assassins must be dealing a hell of alot more damage than they do for everyone else in the game. :::*'Allies cannot be spiked while under Prot Bond.' No they can't, but prot bond can be easily removed. :::*'Can take a while to ball everything perfectly.' This is wrong for two reasons. Firstly, it doesn't take very long if the tank doesn't suck, and secondly, with splinter and EoE even a loose ball will all die in the spike. :::Need i go on? [[User:Paranon15|'Paranon']] 15:57, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :::: *I wasn't talking about Manlyspike, but a classical Tank and Spank using casters for damage, not MoP+100b. Even we use that. *Caster damage is bad. It deals low DPS which is why it must be used in a Spiky fashion to kill tightly balled mobs at a time. This is why waiting for balls isn't a problem in Tank and Spank teams, because you're waiting for your massive cooldown on Meteor Shower. You're much better off taking 6 copies of Assassin's Promise and EVAS, ymlad and FH. That will be more reliable, and alot more entertaining. *Protective Bond is not the only enchantment run on a dual-ER backline. We cover with Life Attunement, Vigorous Spirit, Order of Pain, Protective Spirit, Strength of Honour, and sometimes even Aegis, Death Nova and Dark Fury. The only way people will be stripped of enchants so fast is with bad play. *About the one monk thing; If you're going to take a tank, don't bring a monk which is redundant unless you're a bad player expecting to lose aggro or die often. Just take Res scrolls. c?Minion 20:45, September 30, 2010 (UTC) ::balled foes optimize Mark of Pain's effect., no, i can clearly see that you weren't talking about manlyspike there, so stupid of me. Also, in what way are you better off taking 6 copies of Assassin's Promise and EVAS, ymlad and FH. and how will it be more reliable, and alot more entertaining.? Most of your points can easily be argued against, but i can't really be bothered atm. [[User:Paranon15|'Paranon']] 21:06, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :why waste money?--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 21:04, September 30, 2010 (UTC) ::PvE is easily won with the more bodies you have. Spirit spammers, Minion Bombers, EVAS spammers. Roll them all into one team and gg.Minion 21:56, September 30, 2010 (UTC)